Suggestion Windwalk

[macura]

Why, someone who is no longer playing, so avidly defending / posting on balance discussions?

Either way, the issue stems from potions causing balance issues.

We could just restrict them from everyone except Alchemists .. but not sure if thats a "good" idea.

I don't think that potion use should be restricted to alchemists because it removes the alchemist's ability to contribute to their town. It also would remove alchemist's ability to make money because their only potential customers would be able to make the same potion for a lesser amount of money.

 

[C4ruso]

Delf you are only buffing Runeblade

 

[Delfofthebla]

You don't play samurai

It's true, as you say, I am not a "Samurai player". If, by stating this, you are questioning my ability to balance the class, I do not think that is something you need to worry about. I am very active in Herocraft PvP, I have a strong sense of mechanics and overall game balance, and despite the fact that I do not play the class on Herocraft, I have playtested it on the Test Server quite a lot.

While the Test server isn't an accurate depiction of real-world Herocraft PVP, I believe that my playtesting combined with extensive experience of the wide variety of Herocraft classes, fighting styles, and combat techniques is sufficient enough to give me the knowledge necessary to determine the "real-world" balance of the class. Additionally, I always cross-check my decisions with experienced, active PvPers that actually play the class frequently before finalizing my decisions.

Why, someone who is no longer playing, so avidly defending / posting on balance discussions?

Either way, the issue stems from potions causing balance issues.

We could just restrict them from everyone except Alchemists .. but not sure if thats a "good" idea.

Indeed, you are correct here. If potions weren't available to all classes, there wouldn't be much need for altering the speed values. Even Speed I becomes powerful if it isn't available to everyone. However, as long as potions exist, the issue will remain.

Potions have a pretty large impact on balance, but I don't think preventing them from being used by all players is the best idea. I like potions being available to everyone, I think potions are fun. I enjoy making them for my townmates, I enjoy selling them to other players, and of course, I enjoy drinking them myself. I like Alchemist the way it is. Additionally, restricting potion usage transforms the Alchemist into a "combat class", which I believe is something that we should stay away from.

Delf you are only buffing Runeblade

The rework to Runeblade was a very large overhaul to the balance of the class. Many would argue (myself included) that it was much stronger before. The previous Runeblade was a better caster killer, had better chasing capabilities, and had a much higher burst output. Additionally, it had ranged nuking capabilities via Firewave, whereas the new Runeblade does not. Overall, the new Runeblade is "weaker" than the previous. While I am planning to add a new skill in the next update, there are also a few more changes coming in that will be considered "nerfs".

When changing so much at once, it's not easy to keep everything 100% balanced, however, I think as far as the Runeblade is concerned, I have done pretty well. Contrary to what you seem to think, I am not biased towards specific classes C4ruso, I am trying to maintain the balance of Herocraft to the best of my ability.

 

[w0nd3rb0y]

This isn't a bad idea, but I have a feeling it will still bring back one of the prior issues. Without a long duration, it will prevent them from being a "complete" caster killer, but even a few seconds is enough time to completely destroy any class, be they melee or caster. It's just too fast for a combat ability--it gives them too much control.


Theirs gets removed the moment they take any damage.


So you're wanting tackle then? >.>

Yes, tackle, how would this be more powerful than windwalk? I mean you gave a melee class blink, stack that with iceblade, and you slow your target, no need for one......

Also, offtopic, with Macromod you can script a macro to apply your 3 skills in "queue" with the push of one button. And since most your skills are no longer targetable, it makes the class super easy to rape face. Just hit one button, swing like a mad man, hit one button, and so on...

 

[lioIIoil]

I think that speed III is too much but speed II is not enough

 

[Delfofthebla]

Yes, tackle, how would this be more powerful than windwalk? I mean you gave a melee class blink, stack that with iceblade, and you slow your target, no need for one......

Also, offtopic, with Macromod you can script a macro to apply your 3 skills in "queue" with the push of one button. And since most your skills are no longer targetable, it makes the class super easy to rape face. Just hit one button, swing like a mad man, hit one button, and so on...

Ugh. Wonderbuck, I really feel as though you have any idea what you are talking about most of the time. You've clearly never played the new Runeblade--not even a little. Just as with your inability to accept the presence of the hit invulnerability timer, you refuse to acknowledge the inner mechanics of the new Runeblade Runes.

First off: If I recall correctly, Kainzo has stated that Macromod scripts are illegal, so anyone attempting to do anything of the sort would be in for a swift ban.

But then again, it doesn't even matter, because what you are describing won't even work.

1. Runeblades do not have iceblade anymore. But nice try.
2. Runes are skills. Activating a Rune is subject to global cooldown. This means you can only "activate" one Rune per second.
3. You can queue up to three Runes at any given point, yes. However, only one Rune can apply in a single second. I have personally coded these abilities myself, and I have made sure that it is impossible to activate more than one at once.

Please try to do at least a little bit of research before making heinous claims next time.

 

[w0nd3rb0y]

Ugh. Wonderbuck, I really feel as though you have any idea what you are talking about most of the time. You've clearly never played the new Runeblade--not even a little. Just as with your inability to accept the presence of the hit invulnerability timer, you refuse to acknowledge the inner mechanics of the new Runeblade Runes.

First off: If I recall correctly, Kainzo has stated that Macromod scripts are illegal, so anyone attempting to do anything of the sort would be in for a swift ban.

But then again, it doesn't even matter, because what you are describing won't even work.

1. Runeblades do not have iceblade anymore. But nice try.
2. Runes are skills. Activating a Rune is subject to global cooldown. This means you can only "activate" one Rune per second.
3. You can queue up to three Runes at any given point, yes. However, only one Rune can apply in a single second. I have personally coded these abilities myself, and I have made sure that it is impossible to activate more than one at once.

Please try to do at least a little bit of research before making heinous claims next time.

First off, I do know the mechanics of the game, considering I still dominate you in all aspects of heroes PVP. I mean really, you run around in full gold, lol. Never played runeblade, but as a ninja I ran around in just a chain helm, along with all the other players I would consider exceptional ninjas, and still do better than you. Second, do you know how macromod works? You can separate /skill commands by how ever long you want. Third, Sorry, ICERUNE, my bad bro, didn't realize you were incompetent as well. Forth, Hit Invuln timer does exist, however, it is not "RESET" upon skill usage. And from what I understand, the server has a plugin that has disabled the parts of macromod that are deemed illegal. Danda and I were on the forefront of speaking with Mumfrey about finding a solution to making the mod legal. Macros and AFK macroing are two separate things if this is what you are referring to. You can easily script a command in the normal command line of macromod, therefore how would this be illegal. You gave a class an easy button. And through your basis toward Samurai's have nerfed them to where you think is balanced. You want rogues to be able to kill warriors, but god forbid, a warrior be a "caster killer"

 

[macura]

First off, I do know the mechanics of the game, considering I still dominate you in all aspects of heroes PVP. I mean really, you run around in full gold, lol. Never played runeblade, but as a ninja I ran around in just a chain helm, along with all the other players I would consider exceptional ninjas, and still do better than you. Second, do you know how macromod works? You can separate /skill commands by how ever long you want. Third, Sorry, ICERUNE, my bad bro, didn't realize you were incompetent as well. Forth, Hit Invuln timer does exist, however, it is not "RESET" upon skill usage. And from what I understand, the server has a plugin that has disabled the parts of macromod that are deemed illegal. Danda and I were on the forefront of speaking with Mumfrey about finding a solution to making the mod legal. Macros and AFK macroing are two separate things if this is what you are referring to. You can easily script a command in the normal command line of macromod, therefore how would this be illegal. You gave a class an easy button. And through your basis toward Samurai's have nerfed them to where you think is balanced. You want rogues to be able to kill warriors, but god forbid, a warrior be a "caster killer"

The hit timer reset thing does exist.

 

[Delfofthebla]

First off, I do know the mechanics of the game, considering I still dominate you in all aspects of heroes PVP. I mean really, you run around in full gold, lol. Never played runeblade, but as a ninja I ran around in just a chain helm, along with all the other players I would consider exceptional ninjas, and still do better than you. Second, do you know how macromod works? You can separate /skill commands by how ever long you want. Third, Sorry, ICERUNE, my bad bro, didn't realize you were incompetent as well. Forth, Hit Invuln timer does exist, however, it is not "RESET" upon skill usage. And from what I understand, the server has a plugin that has disabled the parts of macromod that are deemed illegal. Danda and I were on the forefront of speaking with Mumfrey about finding a solution to making the mod legal. Macros and AFK macroing are two separate things if this is what you are referring to. You can easily script a command in the normal command line of macromod, therefore how would this be illegal. You gave a class an easy button. And through your basis toward Samurai's have nerfed them to where you think is balanced. You want rogues to be able to kill warriors, but god forbid, a warrior be a "caster killer"

You really should learn to space out your thoughts better Wonderbuck, reading your post was a chore.

Last time I saw you, you died in 5 seconds, so I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about when you say you "dominate me in all aspects of heroes PVP". You also only play once every two weeks, after which you disappear for several weeks at a time. I don't understand how someone as inactive as you can argue that he dominates anything other than the logout button. Regardless, our skill levels have nothing to do with your knowledge of Minecraft/Herocraft mechanics. Additionally, based on what you just typed out, I stand by my statement. Herocraft skills DO reset the hit invuln timer. Kainzo has confirmed this in the balance forums, and I have tested it firsthand as a programmer. You are wrong and once again, unable to accept the facts.

Regarding the macro stuff, I am aware that you can place separate /skill commands on the same line, but I did not think that is what you were talking about. To be frank, it was hard for me to grasp what kind of macro you were speaking of, because it didn't make any sense what so ever (and still doesn't). I also find it funny that you did not acknowledge the fact that I told you this macro was impossible to create, yet you are still stating that I created a "1 button win" class.

Oh, and I didn't really have any hand in the Samurai changes. Kainzo was the one who made the decision to nerf DoT tick timers, and reduce Windwalk to Speed II. I agreed with the decisions as they were both correct and necessary, but I did not propose either of them. So once again, nice try.

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If you wish to debate with me further about silly nonsense that doesn't make sense and isn't true at all, I suggest you send me a private message here on the forums. We've taken this thread off topic enough, and don't need to discuss any of this any further.

 

[w0nd3rb0y]

LUNARLANCE, dragoon is the new "caster killer"

 

[macura]

LUNARLANCE, dragoon is the new "caster killer"

That is a little off topic.

 

[Ellron23]

Lets look at the numbers, shall we? Bear in mind these are vanilla MC numbers, I'm not sure how it's been altered for HC. Also know that a minecraft block is 1 meter cubed.

Vanilla Minecraft Walking Speed: 4.3 m/s
Minecraft Sprint Multiplier: 1.3x
Vanilla Minecraft Sprint Speed: 5.6 m/s

So to get everything straight, a caster, without any potions, can run away from you at 5.6 meters per second, not calculating for the blink if that caster happened to be a wizard.

Swiftness I Buff: Speed increased by +20%
Swiftness II Buff: Speed increased by +40%
Swiftness III Buff: Speed increased by +60%

This means that if a samurai is running at 5.6 m/s (standard sprint speed) and he has a Speed II buff, he can move at 7.84 m/s. That is quite fast. Now if it was a Speed III buff, he would move at 8.96 m/s.

So what if the person you are trying to catch up to has blink? Let's do some more calculations, shall we?

Blink Distance: 12 blocks
Blink Cooldown: 8 seconds
Blink Speed per Second: 1.5 m/s

So that means with Blink and vanilla sprinting, the fastest a wizard can move at is 7.1 blocks per second.

In conclusion: The argument that any class can escape from a samurai, other than Dragoon and Bard / people buffed by a Bard, is invalid. With a Speed II, they can only keep the distance between them and the samurai equal, until either Windwalk or the potion runs out.

 

[Scycor]

LUNARLANCE, dragoon is the new "caster killer"

No.

 

[ForzakenAngel]

I think that speed III is too much but speed II is not enough

I agree with this. A suitable change for me would be possibly making the first 3 secs speed three and then the last few seconds speed 2. Therefore simulating the burst of speed wearing off. Also if you say speed 3 is overpowered why does bard have speed 3 in accelerando?

 

[Ellron23]

Also if you say speed 3 is overpowered why does bard have speed 3 in accelerando?

Because Bard isn't a class that can machine gun you with their sword. They are a utility / support class.
My opinion is that bard needs Speed III as an incentive to use them!
Use your support! Spec support! By using your support, you get an extra little speed boost! Now in Vanilla, the speed boosts would stack to Speed V. I'm not sure how Heroes handles this so I won't delve into that.

 

[Delfofthebla]

I agree with this. A suitable change for me would be possibly making the first 3 secs speed three and then the last few seconds speed 2. Therefore simulating the burst of speed wearing off. Also if you say speed 3 is overpowered why does bard have speed 3 in accelerando?

Basically what ellron said. They cannot utilize the speed like a samurai can. Additionally, their speed is removed whenever they take damage. It is flat out impossible for a Bard to deal damage in melee but also keep accelerando up. Even maintaining the speed buff for their party isn't viable due to the high stamina costs.

 

[Ellron23]

Basically what ellron said.

/life

 

[C4ruso]

Delf maybe you can make Windwalk 20 secs or 25 with speed 2

 

[leftovers5]

There is no way that this is happening. I need not show the math (thanks to Ellron23 ), but the old Windwalk overwhelmed all other modes of speed enhancement by far. Samurais were doing too well overall and restricting their chasing capabilities balanced the class in comparison to other classes.

 

[Templar_James]

Played samurai on test server before windwalk nerf. I felt like a race car vroom vroom everywhere