Town Alignments, Living the lie.

[leftovers5]

Palestianian response to Israel's attacks*

No, no, no. You see, the metaphor is that whenever Palestinians attack Israeli troops/people/etc, Israelis strike back with x10 more force.

 

[Fjordsen]

No, no, no. You see, the metaphor is that whenever Palestinians attack Israeli troops/people/etc, Israelis strike back with x10 more force.

Well, the Israeli are occupants of Palestina so a few rebels should just be natural

Anyway, this is Off Topic

 

[DefaultTexture]

The idea of the topic is good, the posts in it are retarded. K thx bye

No kidding, I probably shouldn't have posted what I posted Apologies to left for being a bitch.

 

[EvilThor]

I for myself can say that:
Camelot is a true neutral hamlet.
We do about what we want, a bit of good and a bit of evil.
btw guys:
http://www.herocraftonline.com/wiki/index.php/Alignment
http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/township-page-requirements-tax-information.23457/

Mostly there are good and evil players who joined the wrong town..

 

[DefaultTexture]

I for myself can say that:
Camelot is a true neutral hamlet.
We do about what we want, a bit of good and a bit of evil.
btw guys:
http://www.herocraftonline.com/wiki/index.php/Alignment
http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/township-page-requirements-tax-information.23457/

Mostly there are good and evil players who joined the wrong town..

As to that ending "Mostly there are good and evil players who joined the wrong town.." You need to remember that it is the mayor or other managers that accepts the new members. That means that they should look into whether a player matches the town.

 

[Dielan9999]

-snip-

Well weynard like always you have a very interesting design in mind behind a better alignment system. I simply disagree because I don't really see any of the allignments except EVIL to be profitable/useful to the towns picking their alignments. Pride and dignity alone isn't enough incentive to pick good or neutral under your terms.

 

[leftovers5]

Well weynard like always you have a very interesting design in mind behind a better alignment system. I simply disagree because I don't really see any of the allignments except EVIL to be profitable/useful to the towns picking their alignments. Pride and dignity alone isn't enough incentive to pick good or neutral under your terms.

What about moral obligations? Isn't that enough? Someone needs to stand up for the little guy (in the case, new players).

 

[Dsawemd]

I laughed when I realized an evil player made a thread complaining about getting attacked randomly. And by a good town, sworn to fight evil.

Good towns act bad, probably too much. Evil towns should expect to fight everyone. Perhaps some of the "good" towns should consider going nuetral.

 

[Dielan9999]

What about moral obligations? Isn't that enough? Someone needs to stand up for the little guy (in the case, new players).

under weynard, good can't really defend new players because they can only defend themselves. As with neutral, being unable to make alliances is just asking to get stomped on.

 

[weynard]

-snip-
All
- Can provide shelter to individual players, but not those of an adverse alignment.
- Starts at neutral standing towards every other town, guild or player unless otherwise stated.

Good
- Does not attack anyone unless at war.
- Can defend itself in its own territory for the duration of an attack.
- Can defend other good or neutral towns and guilds on their respective territory.
-snap-

Dielan can't read.

 

[victim130]

-SNIP-

The same reason the Karma system would bring problems are in this. In a sandbox game, why would you make so many restrictions? It A: Makes no sense, B: Is no fun to anyone who is forced into it and C: Makes heavy changes that are not needed.

Going to lay it out my way. Herocraft is made with the combined force of Minecraft and the Heroes Plugin among some other plug ins to make stuff smooth. Now Minecraft is a sandbox survival or creative game. In this case we are going with Survival. Heroes is a PvE and PvP plug in that focus on group style combat with only a few solo orientated classes.

With that out of the way, Herocraft has towns and player built factions by word of mouth (Technically). Each of these towns are usually ran by community leaders. Or in the off case its ran by some random it usually fails. Lets use the Tree Creepers and the Fire Creepers as well as Newerth and Camelot as examples.

The Tree Creepers are openly evil in their ways and in the past they made a nice name for themselves in doing such. Now the Fire Creepers are looked at as being the good guys in this mini war, but in reality they are both evil (Or in moral standards at least) FC attacks random Neutral towns all the time, more than the TC do in some cases. Which brings me to Newerth, a peaceful crafter town that (If it had more active leaders) focuses on building. We are Neutral though we do hold alliances. On the other hand, Camelot is a bit more PvP active and they have no alliances and are still Neutral. Camelot attacks as they see fit and Newerth generally never attacks (Aside from a few PvPers we have in our ranks)

So basically it comes to politics. Is America Evil for attacking other countries? Is Canada Good for not starting wars? Then why are they aligned? Because its in their best interest. In war, their is no good or evil, only the victor.

So to cut it short, these restrictions would totally reshape Herocraft into a more linear game (Although it would still not be totally linear, just partly) Which should never be the aspect of an online game, nor should it be of a sandbox. In the very least, the karma system will only effect individual players, but will still bring a problem when wars some into play.

I don't mean to bash either, its a good idea in theory, but would never work/appeal to the players.

 

[weynard]

It A: Makes no sense

Bullshit argument. Go fuck yourself.

B: Is no fun to anyone who is forced into it

Argumentum ad populum? No thanks. You've got no evidence to prove this.

and C: Makes heavy changes that are not needed.

I'm afraid you will have to explain this. Since this thread keeps popping up, I would say that this issue must be addressed.

Going to lay it out my way. Herocraft is made with the combined force of Minecraft and the Heroes Plugin among some other plug ins to make stuff smooth. Now Minecraft is a sandbox survival or creative game. In this case we are going with Survival. Heroes is a PvE and PvP plug in that focus on group style combat with only a few solo orientated classes.

The entire paragraph was completely unnecessary. We already know all of this. Stop trying to sound smarter than you are.

With that out of the way, Herocraft has towns and player built factions by word of mouth (Technically). Each of these towns are usually ran by community leaders. Or in the off case its ran by some random it usually fails. Lets use the Tree Creepers and the Fire Creepers as well as Newerth and Camelot as examples.

Still, nothing new.

The Tree Creepers are openly evil in their ways and in the past they made a nice name for themselves in doing such. Now the Fire Creepers are looked at as being the good guys in this mini war, but in reality they are both evil (Or in moral standards at least) FC attacks random Neutral towns all the time, more than the TC do in some cases. Which brings me to Newerth, a peaceful crafter town that (If it had more active leaders) focuses on building. We are Neutral though we do hold alliances. On the other hand, Camelot is a bit more PvP active and they have no alliances and are still Neutral. Camelot attacks as they see fit and Newerth generally never attacks (Aside from a few PvPers we have in our ranks)

First of all, you should be using fictional factions. Naming existing guilds and towns is only going to cause further irrelevant circle jerking and flame wars. And to make things worse, you're also a member of one of the towns you're covering. Not a good start.
What is this, anyhow? A history lesson? Are we doing a fucking school newspaper now? Oh, pardon me, I thought we were discussing the alignment system. I didn't realise we're actually just shitposting with our sophisticated faces on.
Back on topic, what you've done here is explained how you see current affairs. What you have not done is give any indication as to how it should be.
On the one relevant note you're bringing up, you are suggesting that neutrality can exist with alliances, which goes against the very idea of being neutral. The only acceptable diplomatic relation apart from "neutral" that equals an alliance can be had with other neutral entities. Anything else forfeits neutrality and makes you rogues or freelancers flying a false flag rather than a neutral group of builders.

So basically it comes to politics. Is America Evil for attacking other countries? Is Canada Good for not starting wars? Then why are they aligned? Because its in their best interest. In war, their is no good or evil, only the victor.

And now we're suddenly in real life. Kick it off with a striking line, continue with some more bullshit that I can't even be arsed to disprove (it's pretty unrelated tbh, comparing Minecraft factions to IRL factions just doesn't work) and end it on a cheesy note. Whoopee!

So to cut it short, these restrictions would totally reshape Herocraft into a more linear game (Although it would still not be totally linear, just partly) Which should never be the aspect of an online game, nor should it be of a sandbox. In the very least, the karma system will only effect individual players, but will still bring a problem when wars some into play.

Aside from the fact that it took me like 15 minutes to reconstruct your retardedly jumpy train of thought, it would actually not change Herocraft that much. Most towns would just be evil, some might be good and almost none would be neutral. I don't really think I understood your definition of linearity, but considering you've so smugly left many things unexplained that needed expanding on, I'm not going to try and decipher your imbecilic and sorry excuse for a critique any further.

I don't mean to bash either, its a good idea in theory, but would never work/appeal to the players.

Jesus Christ, can you get any more lurid? If you can, please try again and include in-depth explanations on why you think an actual alignment system instead of a half-assed and irrelevant collection of flashy descriptions wouldn't work. Maybe I would actually be willing to try and discuss this with you.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

This is the reason why Im not in a town. All the shittalking about a town not being perfectly on the alignment. Towns are meant to be a place for people to use for protection, not a TV show where everything goes as planned.

 

[victim130]

Bullshit argument. Go fuck yourself.



Argumentum ad populum? No thanks. You've got no evidence to prove this.



I'm afraid you will have to explain this. Since this thread keeps popping up, I would say that this issue must be addressed.



The entire paragraph was completely unnecessary. We already know all of this. Stop trying to sound smarter than you are.



Still, nothing new.



First of all, you should be using fictional factions. Naming existing guilds and towns is only going to cause further irrelevant circle jerking and flame wars. And to make things worse, you're also a member of one of the towns you're covering. Not a good start.
What is this, anyhow? A history lesson? Are we doing a fucking school newspaper now? Oh, pardon me, I thought we were discussing the alignment system. I didn't realise we're actually just shitposting with our sophisticated faces on.
Back on topic, what you've done here is explained how you see current affairs. What you have not done is give any indication as to how it should be.
On the one relevant note you're bringing up, you are suggesting that neutrality can exist with alliances, which goes against the very idea of being neutral. The only acceptable diplomatic relation apart from "neutral" that equals an alliance can be had with other neutral entities. Anything else forfeits neutrality and makes you rogues or freelancers flying a false flag rather than a neutral group of builders.




And now we're suddenly in real life. Kick it off with a striking line, continue with some more bullshit that I can't even be arsed to disprove (it's pretty unrelated tbh, comparing Minecraft factions to IRL factions just doesn't work) and end it on a cheesy note. Whoopee!



Aside from the fact that it took me like 15 minutes to reconstruct your retardedly jumpy train of thought, it would actually not change Herocraft that much. Most towns would just be evil, some might be good and almost none would be neutral. I don't really think I understood your definition of linearity, but considering you've so smugly left many things unexplained that needed expanding on, I'm not going to try and decipher your imbecilic and sorry excuse for a critique any further.



Jesus Christ, can you get any more lurid? If you can, please try again and include in-depth explanations on why you think an actual alignment system instead of a half-assed and irrelevant collection of flashy descriptions wouldn't work. Maybe I would actually be willing to try and discuss this with you.

An alignment system just won't work. Players want a town to call home, but go on their way to do other things. Even in the case of war, its not two sides waiting on the battle field, its many groups of players rampaging on either sides. Plus what would determine Evil or Good? If I killed a guy for stealing, will the server realize he stole from me and I was using self defense? No, I'll be branded evil. And don't go saying it would work, just everyone would be evil. That's a load of bullshit. Would a town be evil because three new players went on a killing spree? Or would it be Neutral because the leaders didn't do anything? What determines any of this? And penalties? Who would want to follow one fucking way of doing things in a sandbox game (Linear incoming!) if they stray from the path they get punished.

This system will never work. Too many factors and too much room for error. Not to mention it's forceful and linear. I don't know about you, but I came to play an open world build game where I can enjoy RPG MMO styled combat at my digression.

 

[leftovers5]

An alignment system just won't work. Players want a town to call home, but go on their way to do other things. Even in the case of war, its not two sides waiting on the battle field, its many groups of players rampaging on either sides. Plus what would determine Evil or Good? If I killed a guy for stealing, will the server realize he stole from me and I was using self defense? No, I'll be branded evil. And don't go saying it would work, just everyone would be evil. That's a load of bullshit. Would a town be evil because three new players went on a killing spree? Or would it be Neutral because the leaders didn't do anything? What determines any of this? And penalties? Who would want to follow one fucking way of doing things in a sandbox game (Linear incoming!) if they stray from the path they get punished.

This system will never work. Too many factors and too much room for error. Not to mention it's forceful and linear. I don't know about you, but I came to play an open world build game where I can enjoy RPG MMO styled combat at my digression.

It will work. I disagree with the previous statement that having this alignment system in place would ruin the "sandbox" aspect of minecraft. It adds additional things that you can participate in, or even take NO HEED OF! That's right, not everybody HAS to join a town, or HAS to declare themselves evil/neutral/good. Other people can judge you as so, but in no way are you personally forced to make that decision.

 

[MajorasMask]

Bullshit argument. Go fuck yourself.

And BOOM, just like that, I lose respect for someone.


My view on this:

I don't think we should bother using strict [Good] [Neutral] or [Evil] rules. Like what Victim said, actions can easily be taken out of context, so how the hell would you know who is good, neutral, evil? Infact, isn't this the sole reason that the thread exists? Look at Teddys claims about LO; most of which had to be explained by our own members becauses he only had one half of the information.

Much like with Victims example: Player A kills Player B. Who is good, who is evil? Are they both evil? Are they both neutral? What is it? How on earth can we tell who is who based on one sole bit of information (which is the line of text on our screens; the death message).

My point; how do we enforce such rules? Where are we going to get the proof to say ''Yes he is good, yes he is neutral, yes he is evil''. It is very easy to be biased with such claims, and also, who makes the final decision? The admins? Mods? Don't they have better things to do? And if we ever do get to that stage, i'm not a fan of the ''guidelines'' we have to follow. Let us do what we want, this is Minecraft.

 

[victim130]

It will work. I disagree with the previous statement that having this alignment system in place would ruin the "sandbox" aspect of minecraft. It adds additional things that you can participate in, or even take NO HEED OF! That's right, not everybody HAS to join a town, or HAS to declare themselves evil/neutral/good. Other people can judge you as so, but in no way are you personally forced to make that decision.

I know this, but he's talking about punishment for straying from the alignment. Which leads me to think everyone has to be one or at least the town (Plus towns are mandatory for players starting out and for players who like a politics system. Or like me who are a part of something so old.) If it was more of a benefit program that wasn't game breaking if you didn't go with it, I'd be all for it. However I doubt the Karma system or the idea Weynard had plans to go that path. I honestly like the current system we have, word of mouth makes it feel so medieval or old fashioned.

 

[Dielan9999]

Dielan can't read.

I was talking about new players getting camped like they do. How often does it really happen near a good town that is prepared to give aid? And how does a good town 'claim' territory as theirs? Since they can only defend, and only attack during war. Unless they've been around since the start of the map, or are in the middle of nowhere can they lay such a claim; all other land belongs to somebody, and its evil's job to take it away.

I'm just saying under your idea weynard, evil is the only way to go.

 

[leftovers5]

I agree with "incentivizing" good in some way.