Making Combat Logging ILLEGAL.

[GreekCrackShot]

I remember when I was terrified of mobs. I miss those days.

 

[Angyles]

I remember when I was terrified of mobs. I miss those days.

I am still terrified of them....those spiders freak me out and do not get me started on zombies!

 

[ReedME]

Man dont get me started on cave spiders they give me nightmares like for real

 

[Plasma78]

used to be cave spiders.. now its blaze.... cave spider meh.. blaze ftw..

 

[Sweord]

You know what's funny? I find I'm more worried about mobs in SP than in SMP. It's the players I worry about then.

 

[Noah_Ivaldi]

I really don't have an oar in the water, but for the sake of others, let me summarize some logic (just to make this easy to mentally follow for others who may be just now reading the topic, and maybe bring up some points that haven't been expressed too clearly. . . or, you know, just summarize things for the lazy "TL;DR" people. . .):
Intentionally logging out to avoid combat is usually wimpy and unfair. No one denies the fact that the ability to log out mid-combat is periodically abused.
The foremost and most obvious problem with making mod-combat logouts a bannable offense is that it results in a lot of unfair bans on the sole basis of lag, accidental button presses, interference from family/friends/guests, computer errors, unreliable internet connections, et cetera. This is especially problematic with such a large populace; these errors are bound to occur periodically with at least some users, and the mass of online users can result in massive lag and the inability to stay logged in or get back on in any reasonable time frame. Speaking from personal experience, I was on another "hardcore" server and experienced such lag that I was spontaneously disconnected when starting an economic transaction. When I tried to log back on to apologize, there were 204/200 users on the server, and it stayed that way for a long time. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the same thing occurs here.
Aside from unintentional logouts that would unfairly result in unfair bans, sometimes, people have to log off for higher priorities. Call me crazy, but I don't think that a server is likely to stay alive if it's only going to accomodate people whom are either consistently lucky or obsessively-compulsively play Minecraft. If I'm playing Minecraft and Taylor suddenly realizes that he needs to use the internet RIGHT NOW to get some homework done before his pills kick in and he becomes worthless, I'm going to log out. If I get a call from someone who needs to be talked out of committing suicide, call me gone. If someone just asks me to come pick them up because they ran out of gas on the way home in the middle of the night, see you later! If everyone who logs out for a good reason gets banned, a lot of people are gonna' be reasonably pissed.
Minecraft is a sandbox game. It has potential for PVP, and the Heroes plugin really brings that out well, but people play because they like to build. If you JUST want a PVP game, there are plenty of other games that are specifically designed for that, and they have better graphics, sound effects, music, and other junk. PVP is a nice addition to gameplay, not something to be forced into whenever any one of 199+ other players feel like it.
Every MMORPG has this flaw: Sometimes, PVP is unfair. If I just start up, become a warrior, head out of spawn to go punch a tree, craft junk, and build a shelter, but some asshat ambushes me not long after I leave the spawn area and (s)he's a Lv75 wizard, I really don't care to lose the 11 levels, 15 dirt, leather boots, stone tools, 46 cobble, and wooden miscellany that I just got because someone is too cheap to pick on someone his/her own size, so I'll GTFO, log back in, and try to flee. I mean, if I let it happen once, I'm gonna' keep getting bent over the proverbial table and never have anything, so I'm not going to let even one jerk ruin me a little bit. Which one of us is the "pussy" who should be punished? You master geomancers mess with the master dragoons and whatnot, and n00bs who can tell their asses from holes in the ground will leave the old boys alone and screw with their fellow n00bs. Since said old boys can't be trusted to leave n00bs alone, let the n00bs run.
Relatedly, it seems to me that it's fair to get away from someone when you just got back from a scrap with ten blazes at once, a glitch that brought about some suffocation damage, and a surprise golden sword in your back from one zombie pigman that was hiding, and you just want to harvest some of your melons so that you can grab a snack before you run home, however far away that is. A spell from some PVP-crazed jerk that could almost two-shot you on a good day doesn't exactly sound like fun, at that point.

Conclusively, while it is agreeable that it's frustrating to engage in a fair battle and have someone cheat out, it's an inevitable consequence of PVP. It's better to deal with that than to steadily screw an entire member base over with an abusive legistlation.

 

[Sleaker]

@Noah_Ivaldi - we're talking about implementing Karma/Honor/Whatever you want to Call it Evil/Good tracks. To help combat the level MAX player killing the newbie along with providing in-game deterrents besides these to help differentiate between Good and Evil players.

If someone logs out in combat, they will most likely be logging in to the death screen. If someone logs out while an enemy is nearby, the will most likely be fine.

 

[Noah_Ivaldi]

@Sleaker : That's pretty handy. I've heard of systems like that, but I know that it's a huge pain in the ass to get them to work reasonably. If you get it working well, though, kudos!

 

[sadikyo]

Noah_Ivaldi --- I couldn't agree with you more. It is good to see there are people on this server who understand logic and can make a valid, logical argument about an issue, providing backup for your opinion. It is also nice to know there is someone else on this server who understands that if I log out when I see an enemy closing in, because I have to really use the bathroom or answer a phone call, or just don't have time for it, that I'm not a "pussy." I think people get so engrossed and involved with this game they forget about this thing called life. And some people have more going on, than just playing minecraft for 10 hours a day, every day.

Basically, we're all talking about a non-issue in my opinion --- I think the combat logging problem has been dramatically improved. The current system makes the person die and lose all their stuff anyway - so it seems that over time there really is little reason to combat log anyway. I guess there are still circumstances where it is happening, but those can be addressed on a case-by-case basis.

This thread was started with the opinion that combat logging should be illegal even if you are not hit. This would be extremely difficult to regulate, and honestly, the admins have more important things to worry about.

 

[malmenca]

Understandably people will d/c and a first "offense"(if u wanna call it that) shouldn't be the end of the world and what not but it must be pretty serendipitous for someone to d/c over and over as someone approaches.

Also, in my previous statements I was speaking facetiously. It is minecraft but the point stands. If you want to build maybe herocraft isn't for you.(not trying to push people off the server) but to just build and expect it to be okay to RARELY die because you can log off prior to combat is absurd.

Again I do understand people d/c'ing and stuff( happened to me in the past) and numeroustimes I've received a pm saying "hey sorry I combat logged I d/c'd " and its all good. It isn't a perfect science but to avoid combat by logging because your building or a low level or carrying good materials is crap. You are fair game to be killed and shouldn't be allowed to logout to avoid death.

It is CHEATING and should be dealt with as such.

 

[kperkins1982]

I've dc/d mid fight because my internet sucks

when I logged back on, I pm/d the person and had them come to my loc and kill me and take my stuff

this way there couldn't be any type of accusation that I combat logged

just because it does happen doesn't mean you can't handle it appropriately afterwards.

The npc pvplogger system does alot to help but it isn't perfect

I see people disappear all the time, and when I do /hero who it says they aren't online so I know they combat logged, maybe due to lag or whatever the pvplogger thing didn't catch them, but anyways....

I fully support some method of karma or whatever, I think most of the server are good players, being constantly harassed by a small group of little neonazi 14 year olds that play 80 hours a week

 

[Plasma78]

Understandably people will d/c and a first "offense"(if u wanna call it that) shouldn't be the end of the world and what not but it must be pretty serendipitous for someone to d/c over and over as someone approaches.

Also, in my previous statements I was speaking facetiously. It is minecraft but the point stands. If you want to build maybe herocraft isn't for you.(not trying to push people off the server) but to just build and expect it to be okay to RARELY die because you can log off prior to combat is absurd.

Again I do understand people d/c'ing and stuff( happened to me in the past) and numeroustimes I've received a pm saying "hey sorry I combat logged I d/c'd " and its all good. It isn't a perfect science but to avoid combat by logging because your building or a low level or carrying good materials is crap. You are fair game to be killed and shouldn't be allowed to logout to avoid death.

It is CHEATING and should be dealt with as such.

Minecraft is not a pvp game lol

Its a sandbox game, Minecraft is a game about placing blocks to build anything you can imagine.

So your ranting about combat logging is null and void.

Second, this is HeroCraft, a mix of pvp and BUILDING, a strong MIXED community. Hence why there are ZONES for combat and zones that prohibit combat.

So you say I cannot build and no expect to die? ok, then you cannot pvp without building something. sounds fair right?

Third, stop your bitching/whining about combat logging, you like pvp so much go play COD and whine when the other team all leaves. That's combat logging. The plugin works decent for now, get into a fight it tags you for combat, its has its losses and positives. If your not IN COMBAT and log out you simply logging out.

Less whining about something that cant be perfected with current coding. Stop wasting coders/admins time with this crap, they put a very nice pvp logger plugin in, it works as best as can be at this time.

Your wanting to punish those that log out cause you come running at them slobering and screaming like pig on steroids, waving your pointy stick at em?

get a grip on reality. If i am building or have other things to do besides ' OMG PVPERS MUST FIGHTZORS"
i am going to recall to trade district, or go to town/region where i can do my business i had planned.

You cannot dictate to players what they can and cannot do in that manner. Omg you have to fight me you seen me. No i dont, you havent a clue as to why i logged off, nor is it your business, i could have real life things arise, etc.

Sure there will be those that will legitly log off to avoid being killed in pvp but its a small number. The plugin that is in place does work for the time being, no its not perfect but it works for what we have.


i think you need to go back to how it was... way back when-->

Classic was the only version of Minecraft with the Creative game mode, which allows the player to build and destroy blocks, allowing the creation of all sorts of objects. Players are given an infinite amount of each block to build with.

That is all you could do.. is BUILD, and die. Roots. Know where the game you play CAME from.
The combat you so crave was not for player vs player, but for player vs MOB. So you could build and survive, hopefully beat the game.


This doesnt even cover the various players who crash from bad internet, bad pcs, power losses, real life, and god only knows.

As Kainzo stated: We're still aiming to cater to all play styles.

So stop calling your fellow HeroCraft players names. Just makes you look bad.

this sums it up best of all:

Thats the major issue, theres no way at all to prove whether someone combat logged or not, when they're not actually in combat. You can try to justify it at the moment, but unless your on the other side of that computer of who your chasing, for all you know they could dc a lot. Its impossible to say i know for a fact he pvp logged. Its just impossible.

 

[kperkins1982]

hahah, I didn't read that he wants combat logging definition changed to "before combat starts"

thats dumb...

most of the server agrees combat logging is once the fighting actually starts.....

it has to be like that because that way there is a log of the event, there is NO way to prove your intentions, and they aren't gonna be looking in server logs to see if a player was X away from another player when they logged. I'm gonna just pretend nobody is talking about that and hijack the thread to talk about "actual" combat logging

 

[Sleaker]

It is CHEATING and should be dealt with as such.

No it's not cheating. it's part of the game. That's why we punish players who attempt to disconnect while in-combat in-game. If you aren't in combat then you're just as fair game to be attacked as you are to logout.

This discussion is going nowhere, We are not going to implement range checks on logouts. At the very most you can anticipate an NPC taking your place for a short time after you logout, and nothing more. We will continue to handle logouts during combat in-game only.

 

[Kainzo]

Locking, please be more creative/constructive in your discussions - when we CAN make projectiles hitting targets flag them in combat, we will.