Balance Team Meeting: Mondays @ 6PM CST

[0xNaomi]

I'm not a note-taker, dagnabbit!

Changes today:

• "Scan" now has a 1 block hit tolerance. Everyone was waiting for that one, definitely.
• Druid's "Bolt" has been replaced with a clone called "Fulmination" so that we can do better numbers. It now has the higher PvE multiplier other Druid skills have.
• Layhands now has a 2s warmup. Enjoy your mind games.
• DreadAura should now only take mana on activation

Some of the ideas I remember:

• Fix Merchant stuffs to work, because it's apparently broken
• Lots of BattleTracker things that aren't really Balance but I need to put them somewhere or I'll forget.
• Possibly add Enchanted Books in as a managed thing, to give Enchanter a way to do things without EXP that isn't just "free".
• DreadAura fix (I need to do this at some point)
• Add Spires to Port
• Add a threshold for Bounties where at or past X it's PvP-ON everywhere

EDIT: Finally did DreadAura fix. Hopefully it works, though I don't see anything obviously wrong
EDIT 2: Late night remembering. Added Bounty stuff.

 

[Kainzo]

@Balance Team

I'll be moving today, so wont be around, please record notes if possible.

 

[0xNaomi]

@MunchlaxHero was there, we talked until ~7:13, nobody else was there.
He left, so I did as well. We had nothing to really discuss in terms of Balance though, so no notes.

 

[malikdanab]

@MunchlaxHero was there, we talked until ~7:13, nobody else was there.
He left, so I did as well. We had nothing to really discuss in terms of Balance though, so no notes.

Sorry I couldn't attend
Good news is that all my college shit is done, so I should actually have free time now!

 

[MunchlaxHero]

Removed the damage on DevouringDarkness -Necro
Druid ire and fulmination do 135% damage to mobs.

 

[0xNaomi]

Very few changes I know of this time around:

• DevouringDarkness should actually have no damage this time! (It was never updated on live)
• BoneSpear damage is now 110 (from 120), mana cost is now 115 (from 130)
• Damage per intellect is now 1.0 on BoneSpear and DrainSoul (both from 1.125)

 

[0xNaomi]

@Balance Team

I've got some new shiny stuff that would be nice if we could get discussed today.
Said new stuff includes, but is not limited to, this.

(Just as some CYA from the "Balance doesn't discuss new mechanics", that's for deciding to bring them in. That's already dealt with, just need to get input and numbers on it.)

 

[Kainzo]

@Balance Team - meeting tonight at 6PM CST - BE THERE

 

[joshtsai]

As per usual I can't be there because I have class. Would be cool if someone was recording/taking notes please.

 

[MunchlaxHero]

Balance Changes
-Bloodbond to 20%
-Combustblood now puts a dot at 2 bloodunion
Faction Changes
-Spear CD increased to 12 seconds from 8 seconds
-Layhands warmup increased to 5 seconds
-Warp removed from everything but Crafter
EDIT Also Druid's armor is now leather
@Balance Team

 

[Irishman81]

Balance Changes
-Bloodbond to 20%
-Combustblood now puts a dot at 2 bloodunion
Faction Changes
-Spear CD increased to 12 seconds from 8 seconds
-Layhands warmup increased to 5 seconds
-Warp removed from everything but Crafter
@Balance Team

I'll add everything besides the lay hands thing. It already drains all mana from the user, 5 seconds is a really really long time. At the maximum we should set it to around 2.5-3 seconds.

 

[MunchlaxHero]

I'll add everything besides the lay hands thing. It already drains all mana from the user, 5 seconds is a really really long time. At the maximum we should set it to around 2.5-3 seconds.

Already added, I do agree that the change was a little extreme but everyone wanted to see it, if it is too big of a nerf we will revert some of it. Paladin is no healer and yet it has a better fullheal than cleric, the warmup is the same as a cleric fullheal warmup. It was this or the removal of layhands. Paladin does not need such a strong heal, already a great class.

 

[Irishman81]

Already added, I do agree that the change was a little extreme but everyone wanted to see it, if it is too big of a nerf we will revert some of it. Paladin is no healer and yet it has a better fullheal than cleric, the warmup is the same as a cleric fullheal warmup. It was this or the removal of layhands. Paladin does not need such a strong heal, already a great class.

1. Don't push changes without my permission. I know I couldn't make this meeting because I was traveling, but I have no way of knowing who actually showed up and agreed to changes, better yet I'm not even sure I agree with them.
2. Paladin is supposed to be a semi-mix between a warrior/healer playstyle, so saying it is no healer doesn't mean anything.
3. Druid's armor may be a little strong, but giving it full leather is no good; it needs to be at the very least bloodmage level.

 

[J2BH]

Already added, I do agree that the change was a little extreme but everyone wanted to see it, if it is too big of a nerf we will revert some of it. Paladin is no healer and yet it has a better fullheal than cleric, the warmup is the same as a cleric fullheal warmup. It was this or the removal of layhands. Paladin does not need such a strong heal, already a great class.

Personal opinion here but, Layhands is not even comparable to fullheal. Clerics fullheal takes 350 mana (according to wiki) with only a 20 second cd. Layhands has a whopping 15 minute cd and drains every drop of mana. Layhands is a last resort type of ability for a class with such minimal damage. Just my opinion

 

[MunchlaxHero]

1. Don't push changes without my permission. I know I couldn't make this meeting because I was traveling, but I have no way of knowing who actually showed up and agreed to changes, better yet I'm not even sure I agree with them.
2. Paladin is supposed to be a semi-mix between a warrior/healer playstyle, so saying it is no healer doesn't mean anything.
3. Druid's armor may be a little strong, but giving it full leather is no good; it needs to be at the very least bloodmage level.

Is it Balance Team or Irishman81? Kainzo said all these changes were fine and said go ahead and push them, if you do not like them bring them up next meeting

 

[Irishman81]

Is it Balance Team or Irishman81? Kainzo said all these changes were fine and said go ahead and push them, if you do not like them bring them up next meeting

Notice the word senior next to my name, [Snip]. Some strange things would have gotten pushed (and have) without me in the meeting, so I'd prefer you bring up suggested changes here if I'm not in the meeting and we can discuss it here.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

@MunchlaxHero @Irishman81 we don't need a bun fight here. Irishman81 is Senior Balance. I'm taking this to conversation elsewhere to get clarity on roles.

 

[0xNaomi]

Kain OK'd and said to put in the change.
There's no issue with disagreeing to a change or trying to discuss it on the forums, that's encouraged.

However, can we please not try to go for savage personal insults? Thanks.

 

[Trazil]

1. Druid's armor has absolutely zero reason to be anything but full leather, the class can out sustain almost everything. I've played the class and played against the class, you literally cannot lose to something that doesn't have huge burst because you just sustain through it with your heals.
Irish I think you may want to really look at the class as it has always been in one of the strongest positions in the game. It does amazing amounts of healing and considerable amounts of damage with that healing, there is no reason it should have more than full leather.

2. It's very nice to see changes actually being pushed, and it was a huge complaint for a very long time that balance is never updated. When something is pushed it can ALWAYS be changed and that's the joy of having multiple people able to push changes.

3. Paladin already has Absolution, there is their "healer" role. Paladin is a WARRIOR, and with a fairly decent amount of dmg. There should be no reason that Layhands is pretty much a strictly better skill that full heal other than the cooldown. A dedicated healer shouldn't even have close to the same healing as a side/off healer. I would even like to see the warm-up on fullheal down to 3-4 sec and layhands at 5. @J2BH Paladin is at most an off-healer, where as Cleric is a full on dedicated healer. The skills are very comparable and layhands is just plain better for as long as it has a lower warm-up. If you are getting bursted you want that heal asap, so the class that can give it to you the fastest has the better skill for that scenario, once they have used their burst cleric become the much better sustained and main healer. I don't see why it's hard to understand this change.

 

[Irishman81]

1. Druid's armor has absolutely zero reason to be anything but full leather, the class can out sustain almost everything. I've played the class and played against the class, you literally cannot lose to something that doesn't have huge burst because you just sustain through it with your heals.
Irish I think you may want to really look at the class as it has always been in one of the strongest positions in the game. It does amazing amounts of healing and considerable amounts of damage with that healing, there is no reason it should have more than full leather.

2. It's very nice to see changes actually being pushed, and it was a huge complaint for a very long time that balance is never updated. When something is pushed it can ALWAYS be changed and that's the joy of having multiple people able to push changes.

3. Paladin already has Absolution, there is their "healer" role. Paladin is a WARRIOR, and with a fairly decent amount of dmg. There should be no reason that Layhands is pretty much a strictly better skill that full heal other than the cooldown. A dedicated healer shouldn't even have close to the same healing as a side/off healer. I would even like to see the warm-up on fullheal down to 3-4 sec and layhands at 5. @J2BH Paladin is at most an off-healer, where as Cleric is a full on dedicated healer. The skills are very comparable and layhands is just plain better for as long as it has a lower warm-up. If you are getting bursted you want that heal asap, so the class that can give it to you the fastest has the better skill for that scenario, once they have used their burst cleric become the much better sustained and main healer. I don't see why it's hard to understand this change.

Out of anyone on the current team, I probably have the most experience playing both druid and paladin, and I think these changes are too much. Druid is really only good in the 1v1 scenario, team fights it gets burst down too quickly for its heals over time to do anything; which is part of the reason why it has more armor. I agree it's current amount may be a tad too high, thats why lowering it to bloodmage's current full leather/chain helmet should work.

The problem was never changes being pushed to the repo, it were them being actually pushed to live. Why go through the process of amending a change when not everyone on the team actually agrees with it? With pretty big nerfs on classes we should go over them in depth on the forums to make sure they aren't too much, like these current ones suggested were.

With the recent nerf to paladin left click damage and the removal of reckoning's interrupt, I think paladin is in a pretty good spot right now. Maybe you guys don't really understand exactly how long a 5 second warmup is, but if someone in my party is getting focused, saying "Alright im warming up layhands, just chill out for 5 seconds and try not to die" seems irrational. Using the skill also drains all your remaining mana, pretty much screwing you over for the remainder of the fight.