any unwritten rules you're not sure about? just ask!

[Ilsyde]

Lately, I've been asked quite a few times about what is or isn't legal via global chat or whispers (/msg). When no other member of staff is on I could talk to or when they're too busy, I always try and give the most fair, logical etc. answer possible. Obviously in situations like these, the best any member of staff can do is to disclose a makeshift rule that possibly fits in with any similar written rules (if it doesn't then you know it's wrong in the first place).

Also, we have the "a member of staff said this" "but another member of staff said that" arguments. Some of the unwritten rules can end up biased, some can be sctrict or even turn out to be the direct opposite, depending on who thought of that rule. A precedence helps a lot as well, but you need to be logged in or read about it in order to know about its existence in the first place. Players or even members of staff who're not present at that time might enforce different rules to what they ought to.

I'm also aware that a lot of you asked for some hmm... how should I put it... "flexible" rules to be finally set in stone. Please understand that there was no way for Kainzo to take every possiblity into account and forge a definite rule for every occasion.
Now's your chance! (tl;dr) Ask away and we'll work out the rules so you can refer back to them at a later date.

Also, mods and admins could post as well so Kainzo can approve the decision that was (hastily) made or come up with his version. And as soon as we have the final say, that rule will go on the main list of rules. Thank you!

 

[Kaliven]

I've got a few:

Scenario 1:
What is the official Standpoint on people setting home in what is supposed to be a locked area, I've reported it to mods/admins, some say I can kill them for being a "d word" -- since they've received several warnings" - others say I have to give them 3 new warnings each time, still others ignore it.

Scenario 2:
Player A.) kills tons of people, repeatedly, a fair (say 50 blocks) outside the ring of a town, They just keep coming back for more death, the players who keep getting killed start call him names like Fag, homo, bitch, in Offtopic chat.

Player A.) Then taunts them in some offensive but legal way, in off topic such as ... oh I don't know,please keep giving me your loot, its very nice, I always wanted 20 Diamond armors.

So Any Rules broken?

The ambiguous "camping outside of rings" has never been answered, Aph said not outside DHX, others think it should be any, I asked for a safe distance, never got it.

Is the no whining rule actually enforced?

Is there a rule against taunting other players? Sometimes it seems yes, sometimes it seems no?

 

[jwplayer0]

Im no mod or admin but i do believe that one of the rules of the server is don't be a douche. and quite frankly, camping a ring for kills is being a douche. I can understand seeing a person in the wilderness and going after him for the kill. But when someone is on their way to a town. and you repeatably kill them every time they get near the ring. It pisses people off. More than what it should. One thing you might want to consider when killing someone is if your being too much of a douche or not (not personal to any person just overall to everyone) Now, thats not to say that you cant kill them at the ring once or twice. Just dont get to carried away with it.

 

[Kainzo]

In a sandbox game - it is impossible and unrelenting to cite every rule for every place. Some situations are just not in this category - however, for clarification and if you feel something is in a grey area - please ask.

1) Chunk error mining - its frowned upon - please dont do it - its not something we can easily track and its not something I want to waste time on

2) Vulgar language - use fucking discretion - we're an adult server, and we have adult language tossed around

3) PVP outside rings - more or less - you are purposely testing my ability to not ban you if you camp rings - KNOWING that theres no PVP there. Get some class and wait a bit further back. If you really want to pvp near the rings - feel free to be liable to get banned.

4) Grey areas will ALWAYS exist - if you have a complex server and complex set up - as we do - theres no way around it. Sorry.

 

[Doreagarde]

When it comes to vulgarity, I can say that historically I have muted and kicked players for using bigoted and racist remarks, whether said generally or directed at another player. I don't give a fuck if someone says mean things to you about your mother, and I can't speak for the other mods, but, personally, I don't abide bigotry.

 

[Ilsyde]

It makes me very happy to see so many responses. Beats getting different answers for the same question, doesn't it? I'm also glad that Kainzo popped in to reply. Going to do the same myself by multiquoting, mainly for him to see a list of missed questions - without wasting too much time and checking out each post - and NOT because the following (my) opinions are the rules!

And breaking into houses IN THE WILD. There is a rule that you cant ruin others property. What about destroying blocks in order to get in and steal from chests and then replacing the blocks?

People had some valid arguments to this in order to point out some flaws in this rule. For example, what if you build a large manor but place a dirt block where the door is. Then anything you have inside of your chests is safe from burglars even without region/lwc and stealing those will be considered griefing? My take on this rule is that you should be allowed to destroy a few blocks in order to get into closed-off rooms and places. However, knocking down a wall or breaking blocks just for the sake of it is indeed griefing.

What is the official Standpoint on people setting home in what is supposed to be a locked area, I've reported it to mods/admins, some say I can kill them for being a "d word" -- since they've received several warnings" - others say I have to give them 3 new warnings each time, still others ignore it.

This sounds easy. There is already a rule saying that locked homes/rooms/places inside official towns are a no-go area (hope you mean something like this). So if someone sets his spawn point there then he violated that rule.

I was specifically talking about being called a faggot, cock sucker, someone who enjoys being jizzed on, ad infinitum... in a PUBLIC channel. If that isn't bannable, but some of the minor things other people have said are...(...)

Again, this is easy to answer. We have a rule against harassment. If someone repeatedly calls you names, ask them to stop and if he doesn't comply then report it to staff. We'll warn the player and if the situation doesn't change then he gets a swift boot. Bear in mind, this is only for major player harassment - some people just like to joke around so don't be offended by them. In any case, have your screenshots ready.

 

[Zyromkiru]

One question that I can think of so far:

#1 If you declare war on another town and they accept, do you get to destroy their buildings and/or loot their items?

Since this is war I would expect that it gets dirty but I am not entirely sure.

 

[McGreed]

Yeah, the rule about griefing to gain access is that you don't need 3x3 hole in a wall to get in. And maybe you gain access, and then fix the hole again, so the person don't know how you got there, which is even better. Just breaking blocks for the sake of it, like an vandalising thug who trash the place they rob and turn on water and flood the place. That's not acceptable.

And about word calling, as always moderate is the word. Go spewing words in a hissyfit into o/g isn't recommend.

Oh yeah, while we are at it, something that isn't specified, digging under DH wall or dirt towers over it is not allowed either. Use the gates, you lazy buggers.

 

[Kainzo]

Q1)And breaking into houses IN THE WILD. There is a rule that you cant ruin others property. What about destroying blocks in order to get in and steal from chests and then replacing the blocks?

Thieves must be stealthy - if you break down an entire wall - the Staff will find you and ban you - because you arent a good thief - Staff doesnt want thievery - however, we wont track it unless you cause a disturbance. (Ie thats light roleplay - leave a fucking foot print and its your own undoing). Break a wall - replace it - then go about your business by taking whatever.) - DURRR.

Q2) What is the official Standpoint on people setting home in what is supposed to be a locked area, I've reported it to mods/admins, some say I can kill them for being a "d word" -- since they've received several warnings" - others say I have to give them 3 new warnings each time, still others ignore it.

Players should not have homes set in other towns or locked areas where that person requests them to be removed - We will ban / remove your ability to use home/warp etc. You can kill them after 3 warnings (at the current point but this will be changed soon im sure)

Q3) Report to staff - we take action against this shit.

Most of these so far - are so trivial and common sense oriented I just dont know how to respond other than what seems to be the most obvious - again these unwritten rules are strongly implied under our common sense doctrine.

 

[irishsailor]

Ty for clearing up these rules i can't think of anythin that is not already covered now. I was going to ask the same about houses being broken into, cuz i used to have mine broken into....THAT IS WHY i donated!!! get LWC and they can't anymore...so for all you who like to just be free play and not donate to help keep this server number one....DONATE or you can't really complain too much. Ty Admins for being interactive and for answering our q's! Means alot.

 

[Kainzo]

T3 (pre mayors) can only protect a 25x25 large area. They cannot protect the entire town area.

 

[Ilsyde]

Kainzo already answered the other question, so

#1 If you declare war on another town and they accept, do you get to destroy their buildings and/or loot their items?

The Citizenship plugin hasn't been ported yet (its creator, flameman is having close encounters with real life at the moment) therefore towns can't officially declare war or peace by those means.
That doesn't change the fact though that even in war, all rules apply:
- no PvP inside town rings
- no stealing inside town rings
So basically, you won't notice a difference when waging war against another settlement - except for citizens from opposing towns killing each other when they meet in the wilderness.
We need to work on this aspect of PvP in the future to make it more interesting and rewarding. For now, the answer to your question is no.

 

[irishsailor]

One thing, i do have to ask. as a T5 im allowed a 10x10 protected spot right. now does that mean 10x 10y and 10Depth or can i go from ground lvl all the way to lava? Right now i have a place that is 10x 10y and goes about 20 up from ground and all the way down to brimstone. Just makin sure that is ok.

 

[SquallSeeD31]

At what point is a town considered a town, for the purposes of disallowing PvP within its area?

I've seen the rule written as "No PvP in official townships" and "No PvP inside town rings". Now, the latter is obviously crystal clear: Look up, see rings, no PvP. The former is more concerning.

There was a case almost a month old now where a player was actually banned for "PvP in township", although there were no rings present. The rationale given was that the rings were merely a formality, and the area was considered a town because they had given their coin to the admins, and the ring just hadn't been set up yet. Well, okay, but how are they supposed to know that?

Well, even though I wasn't the player banned, even though that player was eventually unbanned, and even though that player was actually an /enemy/ of my town, I've been constantly uneasy about that ruling.

In such a nebulous circumstance, if the town is not a town but for a formality that a player would have no reasonable means of knowing, I would feel the appropriate action should be to inform the player that they should not PvP in that town and order them to return any items looted from the victim.

When asked about that situation well after the fact, a moderator's advice was to simply not PvP if an area of the wilderness looks like it's a town. Well, that *will* ensure that you don't run afoul of the rule, but in that case, what's the benefit in becoming a town for PvP protection? If Moderators are openly telling players that their interpretation of the server rules are to avoid areas that look like towns, all I need to do to keep myself safe from PvP is build something in the wilderness that looks like a town. Sure, I won't be able to get anyone banned if they disregard the Moderator's warning, but it would be quite the effective deterrent!

I honestly think it would just be a lot easier if we could make it as simple and clear as "No ring, no town", and avoid the confusion this can cause. Alternatively, we could make the rule that the mayor will post on their township thread when they've paid an admin, and/or an admin confirms that they've been paid, and at that point PvP is no good. It requires more work on the part of the PvPer and is less intuitive, but at least the ruling would be *clear*: See a settlement, check the forums before you attack.

 

[Ilsyde]

One thing, i do have to ask. as a T5 im allowed a 10x10 protected spot right. now does that mean 10x 10y and 10Depth or can i go from ground lvl all the way to lava? Right now i have a place that is 10x 10y and goes about 20 up from ground and all the way down to brimstone. Just makin sure that is ok.

Actually, this question is fairly common. I can speak from experience - as a few members of staff were already involved in looking into similar queries - that as long as you have something actually built there (even a staircase from your home to the mines) then it's fine. Obviously you aren't allowed to do this in most towns because there are restrictions for basement levels, set by mayors.
Also, it's 25x25 (X and Z coordinates) and not 10x10 Check Kainzo's post just above yours!

@SquallSeeD31 I will read yours ASAP but right now my boss is stalking me.

EDIT: OK, here we go:

Yep, familiar issue. I made a few posts regarding this in the past.
The way I (emphasis on the ''I") enforce the "no PvP inside official towns" is quite simple, really: no ring = not an official town.
Yes, they might've paid the fee to get their ring up but how would a new (or any) player know that if there is no visual clue? I blame the admins... both of them! *gets banned by dagoth*
Also, to me "No PvP in official townships" is exactly the same as "No PvP inside town rings".
Hope this answers your question but seeing that we had a precedence (I wasn't aware of the full story), let's wait for Kainzo's final answer because I might have to change my views on this one.

 

[irishsailor]

Ty llsyde for the update on the 25x25 i didn't notice, i was just on the donation site and it still says 10x10 so didn't know for sure if it was implemented yet. So in wild im allowed to expand my 10x10 protection to 25x25 always rockin you guys are

????? Tier 5 ?????
donated $60 so far, owns a 10x10 sized personal bank, name on reserve list for 18 months
Mods are automatically granted T5 commands

 

[Ilsyde]

Irish, the "10x10 personal bank" is the size of the safety house below the Sanctum tower you get as a donor. The 25x25 is the area one is allowed to protect if T3+

Only just noticed that I missed these three:

If someone has flowers planted by their house or inside their house, in the wilderness, would taking them be considered griefing?

Tough one. Reminds me of: "if someone makes a house out of obsidian then taking those blocks is griefing (not allowed) - however if the obsidian is in a chest then it's stealing (allowed)"
If you want to make it simple - and we want to, because following and understanding simple rules is easy - then common sense dictates that if a block is already placed then it's griefing unless you return it to its current state before anyone notices (see Kainzo's post about theft above). If the block isn't placed (but is in a chest or hovering over a dead body) then it's stealing or looting.
However, I'd like to have Kainzo's approval in this matter.

If someone is trespassing in your house in a township, what are the rules regarding forcing them out of your home, but not out of the town?

Same - both well be restricted areas. Ask him/her three times then go for the kill or report it.

Is mining in a wilderness mine, claimed or unclaimed, considered greifing?

Another tough question. We certainly don't allow anyone to place signs / couple of torches and claim ownership on every mine they come across in their travels then never use it while restricting others from accessing them. Though we have an old rule asking you to refrain from collecting minerals in obviously lit mines.
If you'd ask me now in-game, I'd say go ahead and do what you want. Mines are too vast for anyone to claim - it would be like sticking a sign on top of a grass block and saying that this forest and everything in it is now yours. Or regioning an area in the wilds without building anything on it, aimed to cut off others from its resources.
However, if you find and establishment with its facilities (a house or a closed-off obby mine) then that would be griefing. Same as above ground.

I will update the first post as soon as Kainzo approved and/or disapproved my answers in this, and in my previous two posts on the first page.
He probably despises me now for opening this topic

 

[Kainzo]

Ty llsyde for the update on the 25x25 i didn't notice, i was just on the donation site and it still says 10x10 so didn't know for sure if it was implemented yet. So in wild im allowed to expand my 10x10 protection to 25x25 always rockin you guys are

????? Tier 5 ?????
donated $60 so far, owns a 10x10 sized personal bank, name on reserve list for 18 months
Mods are automatically granted T5 commands

Actually, the 10x10 area is a personal BANK - made by admins for you - we're re-doing this entire system to be away from spawn (currently its under the spawn tower). This has no bearing in the wilds what you can protect.

 

[SupaSkwirrel]

I have question about breaking into a building to Kill someone.

I understand that when it comes to thievery its been said that breaking a few blocks and replacing them in order to gain access to a structure is alright so long as you're stealthy about.

What about breaking in with the sole purpose to kill the inhabitants.

Our starting up town has been the target of several attacks lately and we've been taking measures to protect and close up entrances. Just Recently someone carved a few blocks out of our wall in order to get in and kill us. They (not mentioning names since its not a serious offense) said they were going to replace the blocks they removed after the pvp-ing was done. So yeah it's clearly not griefing in that case but still a bit blurry.

Some clarification would be muchly appreciated

 

[Doreagarde]

It sounds to me like you guys are having an exciting time trying to start a town, Skwirrel. Be extra careful at night, watch the obvious entrances, and have fun!