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Suggestion A way to make towns safer, war more appealing, and engage the player base as to promote roleplay.

HelsEch

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
I do not expect everyone to agree. This is not entirely thought out so consider this a rough draft. I do, however, have confidence that thinking more on key subjects will help the game and community grow, so I do not regret writing this.

My suggestion starts with regression. There's a painfully obvious trend in results and policy that shows PvP being enabled in towns restricts the process of making towns which means builders have a harder time working on the architecture which means towns are not as good looking which makes players less likely to RP. The first change should be to bring back PvP protection in towns. This makes creative players strive towards improving the game's culture while scavenging PvPers can't be drawn to towns like moths to flames.

My next suggestion is one of compromise. I know from very personal experience that occasional wars make herocraft more interesting(though anything can get old if it drags on long enough) and if towns are PvP protected then war becomes exceedingly difficult. This is where I suggest a war council feature. Either the Zo or delegated, neutral "Judges of War" act as a gatekeeper. Any town may come before the council to submit their desires to go to war, but the council exists to decide whether all out war would benefit play for the server as a whole and deliberate. This aids the rp aspect of the game by creating a connection to a higher power that acts as a part of the world. The world reacting to the whims of the players can be quite engaging.

Finally, there should be a purpose to war. We can't create politics from thin air, but we can create a prize. This leads me to the Dimension Shard(working name), a treasure bestowed upon towns that give either their citizens or their boarders certain boons. When a town successfully declares war upon the other, the ultimate end will be to destroy the enemy altar holding the Shard and steal it for themselves. This would increase the power of the conquering town and leave the defeated defenseless to some extend. This idea is the least fleshed out in my opinion, but would likely help create a more lively environment for raiding savages C:



So, I suppose it would be important to explain why we should make any of these changes. A lot of people will probably look at this and think "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" but sadly there are some issues that can now be considered long standing that certainly require addressing.

Despite some exceptions(myself included) most of Herocraft's older player base has left and even with newer players the population has definitely been diminishing. Over all this time I certainly don't think anyone has been particularly disappointed with the PvP, though there are players(myself included) who don't really play with that feature in mind. PvP has had many concessions and we've lost certain game aspects thanks to it and I'm here merely to propose a compromise to one example.

Towns are not what they used to be. I had almost forgotten how few towns had walls back in my day and each of those towns were automatically less appealing. Within a town's region and without PvP it wasn't difficult to protect your items without needing to LWC all the chests by simply putting them in a building and locking the door. There were also things like DHX(A bank of sorts) where one could store their valuables, but bringing that back is another issue. Simply put, the concessions PvP received in regards to PvP in towns have made town designs cookie cutter and unappealing. Some towns may attempt making their insides good looking, but that has very little impact on recruiting members who now essentially have to rely on word of mouth to decide where they want to join for the simple reason that looking at towns relies on the permission of suspicious town folk and hopefully not being killed. Simply put, removing PvP from towns would decrease risk on both the towns themselves and the players looking to join them; it would lead to more creative towns which will increase player morale; and an overall better looking Herocraft will keep more people playing.

I brought up how removing PvP would help player morale and I think this is true. With PvP being open to towns the teamspeak has changed to almost entirely locked rooms. This way of locking themselves out is a result of player suspicion due to the dangers of any form of player exchange. Kainzo in the past has made some moves to help player exchange(Trade Channel confimation) but it is only to a limited effect. I believe player exchange should be possible on a much larger level than o chat.
 
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w0nd3rb0y

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
May 4, 2012
Location
Charlotte, North Carolina
Absolutely not on pvp protection. Too many players sit in no pvp as it is. This would allow people to pvp hop all the time. As far as I'm concerned, graveyards should only be PvP protected to players who have recently died, not to any player who decides to run for safety.
 

Ruger392

Obsidian
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
How about the town gets like a 2 week pvp protection to at least finish more than half of its build ?
 

MajDeath

Portal
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Where would that shard even go when half the towns are boxes with roofs masquerading as buildings.
 

HelsEch

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Absolutely not on pvp protection. Too many players sit in no pvp as it is. This would allow people to pvp hop all the time. As far as I'm concerned, graveyards should only be PvP protected to players who have recently died, not to any player who decides to run for safety.

If the issue is as simple as running away from PvP, which from an rp perspective getting to the safety of your town makes sense(since we can't have guard NPCs), but it's quite simple to make those already in combat unaffected by lawful areas. This would actually help maintain the disadvantage of chasing someone into their own turf by making potential reinforcements untouchable until they actually strike. These ideas aren't perfect, especially since I don't PvP, but there's plenty of ways to compromise. Letting towns be PvP enabled imo has been more hurtful than it's worth for the community aspect of the game. It forces uncreative or strait up ugly town designs which makes the world itself feel of lower quality. If the player base doesn't have the ability to make the world look as fantastical as it should be, then I sincerely believe something is very wrong.

How about the town gets like a 2 week pvp protection to at least finish more than half of its build ?
That's certainly an idea to play around with, though then the issue is people will still build their towns as if it will be a target for PvP, so we get more boxes, unscalable walls, molemen utopias, etc.. The lack of some kind of ramification for attacking an enemy city is unrealistic and in my opinion harmful to the overall game concept.

Where would that shard even go when half the towns are boxes with roofs masquerading as buildings.
Well, the point of posit one is to let towns build the way they want to. From there it could either be placed by the Zo in cooperation with the town's designer or some other impartial way to put it where it is defensible, but not unreachable. I think towns have been and will continue to be the most important aspect of Herocraft. They are the movers of politics, creativity, and trade. They shape our world in many ways and when one looks at our world from the outside it should be appealing.
 

Ruger392

Obsidian
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
People wont stop making box type towns until they know they will have the advantage of winning agaisnt raiders
 

Egorh

Outcast
Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
The only PvP protection that I would ever like to see in towns would be a No-PvP town hall that needs to have certain dimensions and is in the center of the town.

It would promote people to have more open towns. Normally if their town is open they are always vulnerable to raiders but if they have a No-PvP center they will have a real place to escape to
 

HelsEch

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
People wont stop making box type towns until they know they will have the advantage of winning agaisnt raiders
If towns are non-PvP then there essentially won't be raids. As far as keeping one's items safe there are several options currently available, once available, or possible to make available.

The only PvP protection that I would ever like to see in towns would be a No-PvP town hall that needs to have certain dimensions and is in the center of the town.

It would promote people to have more open towns. Normally if their town is open they are always vulnerable to raiders but if they have a No-PvP center they will have a real place to escape to
This isn't necessarily true, especially since it was when the concept of Town Hall protection was introduced that we started seeing the first block cities and impenetrable cities. Even if you have a fall back point, this doesn't mean your town is a stable environment without taking sad measures. My goal is to make towns what they are supposed to be, towns, not mechanically sound regions used purely for the purpose of PvP preparation and defense fortified within walls, blocks, or blocked off doors either leading above or below. Herocraft is at its most enjoyable when there is free exchange, sometimes even among enemies, rather than constant jealousy and suspicion.
 

Dwarfers

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Location
Arizona
Removing no-pvp is not a good idea. Look at what happened to Temple MA in DG, no -pvp was removed = people stopped going to temple out of fear/pvp.
 
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ShadowRavynn

Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Location
Florida
Personally, I agree with HelsEch :) I do believe alot of the towns woube much more awesome and even open if PvP was off for them. And why can't towns truly choose an alignment? I think we should have the ability to make our town peaceful if we wish - which would equal no pvp. perhaps have some kind of punishment if someone from a peaceful town attacks a player, that their town is pvp enabled for like a week or 2 or something as punishment for breaking their alignment.

I like your ideas Hels and have often wished we could choose to be peaceful rather than pvp enabled. and if a town is peaceful, the townies should also be peaceful unless they attack first. I think it would be super cool to be able to visit towns and see what others nhave built etc, but there is nothing out there right now that allows this.

And from a Herald stand-point, I would LOVE to get screenshots and document towns etc to put up on my blog etc. :)
 

HelsEch

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Personally, I agree with HelsEch :) I do believe alot of the towns woube much more awesome and even open if PvP was off for them. And why can't towns truly choose an alignment? I think we should have the ability to make our town peaceful if we wish - which would equal no pvp. perhaps have some kind of punishment if someone from a peaceful town attacks a player, that their town is pvp enabled for like a week or 2 or something as punishment for breaking their alignment.

I like your ideas Hels and have often wished we could choose to be peaceful rather than pvp enabled. and if a town is peaceful, the townies should also be peaceful unless they attack first. I think it would be super cool to be able to visit towns and see what others nhave built etc, but there is nothing out there right now that allows this.

And from a Herald stand-point, I would LOVE to get screenshots and document towns etc to put up on my blog etc. :)

If this were strictly to promote peaceful vs. war-like towns, then the implementation of a cooldown on the old town PvP switch(very short lived feature) of something like 72 hours or something would fit the bill well enough for players to choose their town's standing. A strait alignment system like you suggest could also work, but it would be difficult to determine how long retribution(peaceful players being able to strike back) would last due to certain situations. I'm fairly certain a system of no-pvp and well moderated war-declarations will give the server a much fresher taste, though it could come across as heavy handed to our fairly large PvP community, but wouldn't raiding a nice looking town be more satisfying than a big old block?
 

victim130

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
I do not expect everyone to agree. This is not entirely thought out so consider this a rough draft. I do, however, have confidence that thinking more on key subjects will help the game and community grow, so I do not regret writing this.

My suggestion starts with regression. There's a painfully obvious trend in results and policy that shows PvP being enabled in towns restricts the process of making towns which means builders have a harder time working on the architecture which means towns are not as good looking which makes players less likely to RP. The first change should be to bring back PvP protection in towns. This makes creative players strive towards improving the game's culture while scavenging PvPers can't be drawn to towns like moths to flames.

My next suggestion is one of compromise. I know from very personal experience that occasional wars make herocraft more interesting(though anything can get old if it drags on long enough) and if towns are PvP protected then war becomes exceedingly difficult. This is where I suggest a war council feature. Either the Zo or delegated, neutral "Judges of War" act as a gatekeeper. Any town may come before the council to submit their desires to go to war, but the council exists to decide whether all out war would benefit play for the server as a whole and deliberate. This aids the rp aspect of the game by creating a connection to a higher power that acts as a part of the world. The world reacting to the whims of the players can be quite engaging.

Finally, there should be a purpose to war. We can't create politics from thin air, but we can create a prize. This leads me to the Dimension Shard(working name), a treasure bestowed upon towns that give either their citizens or their boarders certain boons. When a town successfully declares war upon the other, the ultimate end will be to destroy the enemy altar holding the Shard and steal it for themselves. This would increase the power of the conquering town and leave the defeated defenseless to some extend. This idea is the least fleshed out in my opinion, but would likely help create a more lively environment for raiding savages C:

@Kainzo
@Apherdite
@Danda
@Xanipher
@Amgroma
@Dsawemd
I love the ideas. Thing is, its up to staff to come up with even more management to do this, I think that is the biggest flaw. The direction you want to go though. is amazing.
Absolutely not on pvp protection. Too many players sit in no pvp as it is. This would allow people to pvp hop all the time. As far as I'm concerned, graveyards should only be PvP protected to players who have recently died, not to any player who decides to run for safety.
Oh stop crying, its not PvP if all you hunt all day is scrubs :p We call that PKing.
 

w0nd3rb0y

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
May 4, 2012
Location
Charlotte, North Carolina
I love the ideas. Thing is, its up to staff to come up with even more management to do this, I think that is the biggest flaw. The direction you want to go though. is amazing.

Oh stop crying, its not PvP if all you hunt all day is scrubs :p We call that PKing.
Didn't realize you thought of yourself that way.
 
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